Living Fully — Healing Sexual Trauma: Renee Alleyne & Patricia McGee

00:00:10: This is Radically

00:00:17: Alive Women's Edgecast.

00:00:41: support each other in the work is profound really.

00:01:13: lies beyond shame.

00:01:15: Join us if you can and find more details on radicallyalivewomen.com.

00:01:23: Welcome to Radically Live Women Edgecasts, I'm here with Renee Alain and Patricia McGee really excited about this conversation ahead of us which brings a discovery for me also this offering of living fully.

00:01:48: And we'll dive into it a bit more, but before we go there I want to say few words about you.

00:02:16: used to be a psychotherapist, now call yourself a transformational coach.

00:02:21: And Patricia you have been great many things.

00:02:26: You've worked as a builder I know...you're been teacher and nowadays you are a transformatonal spaceholder bringing together all your different skills and really supporting also Renee's work.

00:02:37: but i see that you support alot of the transformational work thats happening especially in this village around Motuika, Golden Bay and Nelson area in New Zealand.

00:02:48: And I usually start this conversation...and i love starting it like that with a question of who are you right now?

00:02:56: Can you say if your sentence is about Right Now Who Are You ?

00:03:07: Who I am Right Now Is A Different Person.

00:03:13: Really Every Day Right now, I'm attending to my health.

00:03:22: My physical health

00:03:25: and

00:03:26: in the middle of yeah really attaining to my well-being doing chelation therapy getting heavy metals out of my body And on a second day of a carnival diet would you believe?

00:03:36: I find it hard to believe but i've heard so many miracles about what is happening when people start eating meat which I find it hard to say without like grimacing actually, that i've decided to give it a go.

00:03:52: So...I'm an experimenter!

00:03:56: I have left the ordinary comfortable life behind and really life is an adventure in an experiment every day.

00:04:09: That's me um..that what right in front of be at moment.

00:04:18: Thank you, Renee.

00:04:19: How about you Patricia?

00:04:21: Yeah I'm a discoverer of life all the time.

00:04:24: i certainly feel like i'm an elder these days and learning to live in the present without too much fear about the future because The Future is so uncertain.

00:04:39: And...I do have A fire In my belly!

00:04:42: I really Do and it's Certainly Comes very Alive in These Groups that one of which we've just finished.

00:04:50: So I have a fire in my belly for empowerment, empowerment of women any kind of empowerment.

00:04:56: even right now i still work in the school system for two days...a week only and sometimes it's like oh i've had enough of this but other times when i can be involved and empower its like oh yes yeah so that is little bit about who am.

00:05:16: That reminds me that you have been, I mean i was aware of it before but the people listening might not be said.

00:05:22: You haven't on this age cast before and It's an amazing episode off your journey just before you were going On your adventure journey with a bus leaving your house behind.

00:05:35: But we're fast-forwarded couple years later now And I would love to hear what moves you?

00:05:42: maybe to say I love that you reached out, Patricia to tell me about this project.

00:05:47: About the offer of yours.

00:05:49: living fully is really a format that supports women on their healing journey or transformation journey from what i understand and i'd like hear more about it for you on your healing journey from sexual trauma from sexual abuse.

00:06:06: so would you say something?

00:06:10: What matters in living fully?

00:06:15: I'll say something first.

00:06:16: So, i mean...i reached out to you Yulia because..I felt so passionate after this last one that we did.

00:06:23: and

00:06:24: just the transformation happens with these women as a result of being held in three or four days This pretty specialised experience.

00:06:37: It's also what they share with each other.

00:06:40: I saw so much change and so much transformation, So that is why it reached up to you was like oh i want make this more visible

00:06:46: And I really glad Patricia did there because I would normally twice a year run these groups.

00:06:54: They are just the most incredible magical healing transformational experience for women.

00:07:03: Run the group then come home.

00:07:07: anything about what I'm doing even in the village, i don't really mention it.

00:07:11: It's like they're two different worlds.

00:07:14: so I was so happy that Tricia was so on fire to talk to you and make it known what is happening.

00:07:23: The Living Folly Group Was actually gifted To me by a woman In Auckland.

00:07:29: her name's Marianne Hammond And she has been running these groups under the name Freedom to Fly for About Twenty One Years And I invited myself to go and join her group at one time.

00:07:44: She's a psychodramatist up there, and when I took part in this group just as an observer it was like you're coming home.

00:07:55: It was like well... There is the group of women Of course its different group of woman everytime.

00:08:01: These are my people Like..I can use my skills As a PsychodramaTist and I can bring in my own healing and transformation from my own sexual abuse, and neglect.

00:08:16: And...I just felt so at home!

00:08:21: It was a way to use my skills that were in the service of my archetypal purpose really In life.

00:08:33: That's where it came form gifted really the way to work with these women and work with their therapists as well.

00:08:47: And, these groups are funded by ACC New Zealand so that woman is supported.

00:08:53: come through those two channels.

00:08:58: And I want

00:08:59: to add something.

00:09:02: One of the things that just really fires me is, it's incredible commitment these women have...to their healing.

00:09:11: It blows my away how....it certainly takes three and a half days we have.

00:09:19: They're so tentative but fearful at the beginning But then they start putting their foot in.

00:09:26: very soon They're in there and they are disclosing so much, revealing so much.

00:09:33: And opening the floodgates of silence that it's been a part of them for so long.

00:09:42: Particularly this weekend... There were two rage-holds which happened…

00:09:47: Can you explain what that is?

00:09:48: A rape

00:09:49: hold?!

00:09:49: Okay!

00:09:52: So one other thing has been happening.

00:09:56: Initially the groups were run purely as a psychodrama group but in a particular way where there was very safe container, women's strengths and resources are recognized.

00:10:11: About halfway through I came into contact with Possibility Management and also the groups that Anna Norambuena was running expanded Box and Galapse.

00:10:22: so What I've learned from that area has come into the groups, and there's kind of been a synthesis... ...of bringing The Feelings Work in to the groups every time more.

00:10:37: And it just empowered the work.

00:10:42: There are two common methodologies Of psychodrama.

00:10:46: Everything we have learnt through The Feeling Work Just set fire really set fire to the group.

00:10:53: So like Patricia says, that woman is so brave they have no idea what to expect really.

00:10:59: and The rage hold that Patricia was talking about it's just a very recent addition to the groups.

00:11:08: A rage-hold as when a woman has so much anger...so much rage to express.

00:11:14: And there are women on each side of her holding their arms facing other way.

00:11:21: And so she's held and contained, her feet are on the floor.

00:11:26: She is encouraged by Alan also.

00:11:30: Alan Appleton has joined the team... ...and she was very experienced in the anger work.

00:11:36: So she stepped up to hold space for a raid of two women on this group.

00:11:42: It was incredible!

00:11:44: It was so strong!

00:11:47: Yeah and so inspiring for the other one.

00:11:49: And

00:11:50: so much feeling came through, like One woman was expressing rage at her brother who was very violent.

00:11:58: She ended up expressing her rage At all of the domination and abuse that patriarchy has offered over the years.

00:12:09: It was phenomenal in a cathartic way but then afterwards Women just fall to their knees with the power and all of the other feelings that get unlocked as a result Of being able to go all-of-the way, with their anger.

00:12:29: Not always but sometimes

00:12:30: And I want to say something about that because it was really... It was so moving.

00:12:36: i've seen rage holds before But to see the waves of anger this woman falling to her knees, the waves of agony in a way.

00:12:46: You know having opened that gate with all the pain and just letting it be there And then she's ready for them after little bit She is ready for next wave of rage.

00:12:59: It was just incredibly moving.

00:13:02: So much pain and agony lot In women bodies since they were very small Suddenly theres place where they can unleash themselves.

00:13:14: And the love between a woman, just like this women from sometimes as young as eighteen years old to seventy five years old and The love at the bond that happens with the woman too support each other in their work is profound.

00:13:33: really

00:13:36: I've got something else.

00:13:39: There was one woman's drama in particular, and I don't think i'll ever forget it because usually the psychodramatist director is holding The container.

00:13:50: And she was holding It but She Was holding it loosely enough so that there was just So much Interaction from everybody In the group so Much creativity?

00:14:00: That was some point where this Woman who had experienced she called it dirty blood She'd experienced just so much pain.

00:14:10: and then another woman came up with Let's do a blood transfusion.

00:14:14: And next thing, you know the women are up.

00:14:17: The woman who was that we call her protagonist?

00:14:20: she Was there one who is going through the healing process.

00:14:23: She just went Holder arms out like that.

00:14:26: yes give me new blood in.

00:14:28: the whole team turned into an operating theater and took the old blood away, put it in a bucket.

00:14:39: And she just gave herself to her group... ...and everyone took their roles completely spontaneously.

00:14:46: The director was almost out of his job.

00:14:48: Then they gave him new blood and then he came from all over there.

00:14:55: It was royal blood a queen's blood.

00:14:58: And this woman, she gave us permission actually to share that towards the end of their workshop and She came in with much venom and swearing and Hopelessness that she would ever heal

00:15:12: from what I've been

00:15:12: through.

00:15:13: yes

00:15:13: Yes at that moment she really took the blood off a Queen.

00:15:18: you could see it In her face.

00:15:22: It was.

00:15:23: She was in her sixties I think.

00:15:24: Yeah, yeah and i think that's the thing...I remember when my first saw her.

00:15:28: she was someone who'd been ravaged by the world And it was reflected in her body and her words.

00:15:35: but even before that Her being started to shine through.

00:15:41: This is how it is with all of women.

00:15:43: There

00:15:43: are so much like you say Venom.

00:15:45: So we were diving into their underworld again.

00:15:48: Their courage the courage to expose all this was just, blow me away again.

00:15:56: It's mind boggling.

00:15:57: and yet so much of their playfulness especially they're loving heart came through.

00:16:06: yeah

00:16:07: it is hard imagine in such a like that underworld as good way to describe but there can be so much joy and playfulness.

00:16:20: And the power of psychodrama was amazing too, because this same woman... The first drama that she enacted.

00:16:28: She just wanted to be angry with everyone who had abused her.

00:16:33: but she'd never had the first developmental step in life which is trust.

00:16:39: She've never had a mother who wanted her and she was basically annihilated right from start.

00:16:47: so started off wanting to be angry.

00:16:50: She had this idea about being angry but then she mentioned that you know, she was a baby and her mother didn't come into the room for about twenty six hours and she was on her own.

00:17:00: so she had the baby we call it concretized.

00:17:03: So psychodrama is an experiential therapy.

00:17:08: It's not a talking therapy.

00:17:10: If someone mentions oh when I was a Baby immediately The director will create from one of the people in the group and she was on the couch.

00:17:19: And so, she was all ready to do this anger work... ...and then she looked over at the baby and said to the baby are you alright?

00:17:27: Then she became the baby....she reversed roles with the baby..... Out-of that came this very tender beautiful beginning for her where chose a new mother and father who held her close, gave everything that she needed.

00:17:48: And somehow the magic of psychodromic had given to her very first developmental task that she needd to complete other work.

00:17:56: I

00:17:57: hear you're really diving straight into deep end... ...and i welcome it!

00:18:07: One thing that I'm really curious about is what you said, about the developmental stage one of trust before.

00:18:13: You could even go into anger find that fascinating which Could be a really important key for any kind of Anger work to make sure That there because otherwise Any kind of anger work would really fry The nervous system or it could lead.

00:18:31: It builds on a not solid foundation, but it builds something that maybe needs healing first.

00:18:38: Do you have anything to say about that?

00:18:41: That happened actually with each woman who was in the group like.

00:18:45: they all had various levels of being able function and many of them disassociated pretty easily like almost like reparenting in a way and Revealing, being with the other woman.

00:19:10: In new kind of family system where they knew that could do no wrong And that they were accepted just the way They Were We Do Have A Team.

00:19:23: we have a team Of Five.

00:19:25: This Time There Was Six Women.

00:19:26: So We Have A Good Amount Of Support and an ability to create this new culture very strongly together that they've come into.

00:19:39: And it's really helpful, so by the time they do their deep work They already have created

00:19:50: a kind of safety in the group or you know a container.

00:19:54: It is like a safety

00:19:55: Sure

00:19:57: Even with the Rageholds.

00:19:59: when there happened There was room for complete breakdown to happen too.

00:20:04: You know, not break down but that falling into their knees and okay then there's another way.

00:20:08: so yeah when I think back to some of the anger work that i've done in the past...I wonder about sometimes myself not being skilled with women who are disassociating or things are happening you know?

00:20:24: When they're unplugging.

00:20:26: And I'm glad to have this experience To make me more sensitive and aware

00:20:34: And I get this, that the dissociation is such an appropriate response to what happens when abuse happens and then it starts much earlier than the actual act maybe.

00:20:48: What time am i training my psychodermal training?

00:20:52: My trainer said so you know...what do we do when someone

00:20:56: disassociates?".

00:20:57: To follow the method they notice and that you ask them to show us on the stage where they have gone.

00:21:06: And some people say, oh I've gone up to this ceiling or I'm going outside or just go with a tree Or i am behind the couch.

00:21:16: You get there when we are in conversation of following their way They come back So you conquer everything Sees and does and feels.

00:21:32: you take it out of this private area off inside, then we put it out.

00:21:36: It's very effective.

00:21:37: One thing that I hear in from my experience is such a skill especially of women to leave To dissociate to live in the world That's maybe not safe for them And Honestly i don't know that any woman has gone through life without Any sort of sexual assault?

00:21:56: I mean its a bold statement to make.

00:21:59: but So, you know world where it's not actually safe to be in a woman's body even if its lower intensities of sexual abuse or transgression.

00:22:12: I get the sense...I have witnessed that..that i hardly any women is fully into her body all time and its journey there would say thats part what your offering also with the anger work moving through this and then being able to actually be here

00:22:30: more

00:22:32: with a different access.

00:22:35: Yeah, coming into the body

00:22:37: yeah I think what you say is right.

00:22:39: i had an experience The other day was my son and Patricia and My grandchildren.

00:22:45: we went to this beautiful place in takaka And We went all river and the kids were jumping on them as someone's jumping him.

00:22:53: and there are some women there who were young and their bodies, you know kind of like in this patriarchal world.

00:23:02: they looked quite beautiful.

00:23:04: And I was a really aware that i was sitting there...and then I have big breasts..and I had big belly!

00:23:10: This is not sexual abuse so much but it's kinda similar That I did NOT want to expose my body.... ...And I felt really sad about that.

00:23:23: that you know, women's bodies are vilified and how much of it we take in.

00:23:34: And yes okay its not abuse but its kind like the thin end of a wedge I think just brought to my mind when they said comments.

00:23:49: people make

00:23:51: even view on our own bodies but also it's like a distorted, wearing glasses that give you certain colour tinted glasses.

00:24:06: And during the weekend there was... That comes up and body does come out quite a lot.

00:24:11: being able to be with their body comes up quite a bit too

00:24:17: Yeah!

00:24:18: To find ways to endure living in that culture.

00:24:23: disassociation is certainly creative one, but of course it means that they can't connect.

00:24:32: We cannot connect with the joy of being alive and a joy of our sexuality in our affection and our sensuality.

00:24:43: It really does get in the way.

00:24:47: And something else that really stood out for me from what you shared earlier is I think we could to this place of hopelessness or many people where you think that a trauma is too big to transform, there's no space for it.

00:25:02: It's just how it is now and what I hear from you are different ways which means having safe spaces to go fully in rather than trying avoid them.

00:25:13: It isn't about re-traumatizing often but fear of being witnessed moving through an experience and making space so that, that experience doesn't take over the whole life.

00:25:29: So that-that experience has been felt through or not just shifted intellectually because it doesnt do the trick.

00:25:37: Can you say something about that?

00:25:39: Yeah I want to see something about...so there was one thing i felt really inspired by Because sometimes There is unimaginable trauma And many of women did Say at times You know this Is Just How It Is In The Beginning this hopeless.

00:25:54: This has resigned to how it is, but there was something else started to come

00:26:00: through.".

00:26:01: This is another thing that I saw renegating distinctions and the distinctions just landed...I could see a woman like ah!

00:26:11: Ah!

00:26:12: Really getting it?

00:26:13: And there's something you said.

00:26:16: do remember what it

00:26:17: was?

00:26:17: Yeah i've been reading The Existential Kink book and where she says that it's not hard to imagine that some generous souls have returned to the earth, purposefully experience this suffering of women in order help others overcome it.

00:26:36: And they just really spoke to me and helped me turn my victim story around.

00:26:43: And I think that particular woman we were talking about before, she said i just want to get this disgusting vile victim out of me.

00:26:55: You know?

00:26:56: Had enough of it and It just kind of turned the not you know Not blaming women for anything but The story they make over it really did turn That around didn't

00:27:10: yeah with a victim's story have noticed that?

00:27:13: yes stuck in the victim's story.

00:27:17: And there is something as to acknowledging that many of us have been victims at some point, like factually victims to situations and to start their... ...and that step cannot be jumped over.

00:27:32: it's like okay.

00:27:34: can we acknowledge that?

00:27:36: It's not about trying being a better person, but it's what part of me is occupied when I'm stuck in the victim story.

00:27:49: and how can that transform?

00:27:51: so this energy free to create for life?

00:27:56: What you mentioned Renee.

00:27:58: To

00:28:01: answer your question as Can Atoma really be fully resolved If you heard the stories of this woman and saw results, outcome.

00:28:17: You would have to say yes because if things that they've been through can be resolved anything... Yes

00:28:25: it's exactly

00:28:26: right!

00:28:28: Peter Levine wrote quite a few books about Tuoma.

00:28:32: he is well respected in the field And he said a person who resolves their trauma is heroine.

00:28:39: Well, He uses heroin I would say because they have to reach so high and So deep.

00:28:46: the woman's stories are like They're Their precious Gold there treated as precious gold and they're encouraged To go all away with them and bring them all The way out and likely Say-to be witnessed and healed belt about.

00:29:05: It's like the way out is through for sure and I believe that no trauma as big enough, it could not be healed.

00:29:13: of course its not going to go away...I was told when i was twenty two if you get to a level being sexually abused then there really isn't any hope in becoming a reasonably functional person basically incorrect.

00:29:37: A theme that emerged in the group was this word venom, it was used a lot.

00:29:42: The woman were like I just want to get this venom out.

00:29:45: they became very aware of how this venom was limiting them.

00:29:51: Well the gremlins get hold of her day.

00:29:53: How would you translate venom?

00:29:55: What is that?

00:29:56: Venoms like the hatred and the wishful revenge And the enjoyment of that.

00:30:05: I mean sometimes it was so

00:30:06: self-criticism,

00:30:10: sometimes their faces were so reflected in the faces you know almost like teeth barred.

00:30:18: but really they would let that venom show on their faces and sometimes it's incredible intensity at their venom.

00:30:30: But it was so

00:30:30: wonderful.

00:30:32: Sounds to me like unconscious irresponsible anger that goes also inwards,

00:30:36: yeah?

00:30:37: Yes yes

00:30:38: and maybe just add for the listeners with gremlin you're speaking about The King or Queen of Underworld That part Of Us has Unconscious Irresponsible Purposes.

00:30:50: And

00:30:50: by coming full frontal face into that then the Anger started To Become More Conscious completely valid and then having tools, support to actually bring it out.

00:31:08: It just flipped the coin into conscious anger and healing.

00:31:17: but how wonderful to have a situation...to do that with no shame!

00:31:21: Well actually a lot of shame did come up to have the shame.

00:31:24: That's

00:31:25: another question.

00:31:26: then how do you handle the shame in your, this weekend experience?

00:31:31: You concretize it the same as everything else.

00:31:34: so let's take.

00:31:35: a lot of women would say yeah I had a lot.

00:31:40: I remember writing One Woman's Down, but she basically had a stack of pillows that were like six feet high.

00:31:50: And so it was breaking down the shame into specific areas and putting all the bricks off the wall in one big pile then just picking them up one by one Because shame wants to hide and not hiding it because someone would make this big pile of shame, then put a cover over it.

00:32:17: And say you know in our family we couldn't talk about any of these things.

00:32:21: I've never been able to talk about anything like that.

00:32:24: People are like oh look what happened long ago.

00:32:27: don't worry just get on with it.

00:32:30: Don't keep bringing the past up.

00:32:33: So just put a covering on everything will be fine.

00:32:36: They dared to break the silence, and I can remember one woman after she had this pile of all the shames.

00:32:41: And then she said another thing that...I remember her saying She never said it to anybody but put out there too

00:32:52: Unashamedly.

00:32:55: That is when shame also gets the microphone.

00:32:58: It doesn't have to be hidden.

00:33:00: It's a shame often that cements shame in then energy can move again and the prison dissolves, other things become possible.

00:33:15: My colleague Marianne who runs The Freedom to Fly group.

00:33:19: she's part of a college that basically just focuses on shame.

00:33:24: there is huge area but I think we do pretty well with separating feelings from shame because alot time in groups women

00:33:37: are

00:33:38: sad and angry, and scared.

00:33:42: And all of the mixed feelings of shame... ...and mixed feelings get stuck in their bodies.

00:33:49: so there's a lot of coaching and teaching them to recognize okay this part of your shame is fear!

00:33:58: What are the fears actually about?

00:34:01: This part of the shame is anger coaching them to stay in one feeling at a time, as you would and the emotional healing work.

00:34:10: But of course it's so alive with everything concretised on this stage where we can actually And I

00:34:27: remember one time when you did that, so it was really skillful.

00:34:30: The woman was going between anger and sadness.

00:34:33: So Renee had her.

00:34:35: She had the group actually putting their hand up because for this... For the women she was discovering.

00:34:40: Oh!

00:34:42: So people would put their hands up When there's anger.

00:34:45: When they saw It She

00:34:46: couldn't get it, but she gradually was getting and put her hand up.

00:34:50: She'd have to step over here And then oh sadness somebody else that lock with their hand up.

00:34:56: So she was moving back-and-forth and gradually she got clear.

00:35:00: It was just so beautiful.

00:35:01: see Yeah, so the support of other woman in a group is huge.

00:35:08: The sharing could you say something about there?

00:35:11: The shareings that happen often after a drama.

00:35:13: I mean That's pretty potent.

00:35:15: yeah Well when someone puts their hand up to do a drama.

00:35:20: They choose auxiliaries from the group, and usually they'd choose members of the team.

00:35:25: but sometimes the women themselves... And at the end of each drama or conclusion then it touches a lot of woman.

00:35:33: so A LOT OF THE HEALING goes on just in this sharing how each person has been touched.

00:35:39: So people are working all time whether they're ON THE STAGE OR IN THE AUDIENCE.

00:35:44: And one of the other things I wanted to bring in is, In psychodrama you can use what we call surplus reality.

00:35:51: So You never have a trauma simply re-enacted The way it was...you might set up the room and people where Things are just about to happen.

00:36:06: But also there were trees out the window.

00:36:14: one of the dramas was there was a weeping willow tree that this woman used to play in when she was little girl.

00:36:20: There's a wepping willowtree and a pussy-willowtrie, so trees would be represented by people in the group.

00:36:28: The seventy five year old women were in the trees as a five years old playing innocently So reconnecting with her childhood innocent at the moment of where the trauma was almost just about to happen or even at its worst, then suddenly she's invited to take the role of The Tree.

00:36:51: And um...the trees and the rainbows and the grass and the chickens and the dogs and the cats they all have this incredible wisdom that they bring in with their surplus reality which is really just an extension genius and they're the really magic moments.

00:37:15: When the tree or cat basically takes the center stage, it brings in that wisdom and necessary elements for healing of a woman at their time.

00:37:26: things have never happened before so nothing just gets set out in a re-traumatising way because there are always added elements Very heartfelt singing, just at the right times.

00:37:48: The wisdom happens when all these people that come together in this group tap into source or let their genius through which I find also really beautiful to hear that from you because it's so prominent for me how we women come together healing happens and fully present with each other then something else becomes possible.

00:38:11: elements really need us women to heal together.

00:38:14: Need us come together and heal certain layers, other layers or needs happen.

00:38:21: with me.

00:38:23: in this interplay between genders I see the benefit of women doing these work together.

00:38:33: so thank you for offering space opening up a container.

00:38:37: do have another one coming soon?

00:38:41: I need to plan my groups for next year.

00:39:10: don't want to be on the same groups with their clients because there's a lot of women, like me and they're helping professions.

00:39:17: And then counsellors and psychotherapists in various spaceholders that have been attracted to this work Because Of The Need To Heal Themselves.

00:39:29: So I Have Been Thinking About Running A Group For Professional Spaceholders Refessional spaceholders so that they know, then I'm going to be in the same group with your clients.

00:39:40: So Yeah watch this base on their website.

00:39:45: Great i will link them there.

00:39:48: Anything else you need to say before we close or if You want to say anything?

00:40:00: Well, I would say another thing That I love about these groups is the collaboration that happens With The whole group and a woman.

00:40:09: but There's the collaboration between the team members And that's just been getting more and more fine-tuning.

00:40:16: There was five of us this time, there were so much honesty and authenticity really saying how it is which meant you fine tune something I love.

00:40:28: that too.

00:40:28: The only thing

00:40:32: comes to my mind... Well one thing It's wonderful doing this work with Patricia and Alan.

00:40:43: Sometimes you get the feeling like we're taking over the world and that's a wonderful feeling.

00:40:48: And there is this phrase from the Gnostic Bibles, which I really love.

00:40:53: it goes that if You bring out what is within You It will bring You to life!

00:41:01: If You do not bring out What Is Within You?

00:41:04: It Will Destroy You!

00:41:07: That's kind of my mantra on The Groups.

00:41:16: It's a wonderful invitation for each one that is listening to dare bring out more what-within and find spaces where you can do it in safe way, practice, heal or transform.

00:41:27: Thank You both for speaking , sharing your passion & making this visible with people.

00:41:34: Thank you

00:41:35: Julia for your reaction.

00:41:37: Pleasure!

00:41:42: Imagine

00:41:43: That YOU could become so radically alive that you would create not only the life that you love but also the culture that comes through you, your being is designed to create.

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00:42:06: And this could be a daunting thing.

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00:42:11: Daunting simply means it's new, scary... ...and why not do so anyway?

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